http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/64/28351.html

thats shite

only runs microsoft certified software?

oh dear

isnt that what microsoft are trying to do with their next windows OS as well.?!?!??! I cant remember what its called, but will be the death of freeware app programmers

i was looking at the SPV today saying to myself, wot a nice wee phone that is, i might get one for the wife for xmas (so i can play with it)

but sod that, u couldnt PAY me to take one of these phones now

sod that, u couldnt PAY me to take one of these phones now [MS SPV]

That's what I like to hear.....let's show our support for Symbian instead! :multi:

$600 dollars is waaaaaaaaaay too much for a developers license... Microsoft won't have to worry about the competition, I think think they (or was it Orange who put in the certified-software only thing?) have just killed their own product already. Phones have moved beyond simply making calls... in the future, the programs you can run for your phone will define which one you choose to buy. If there aren't brilliant people out there who are willing and ABLE to make free software, a massive market will be destroyed. The only software available will be Microsoft certified crap, produced only by those able to afford the license fee... Microsoft made the same mistake a decade ago with Linux, I hope they have the foresight not to do the same again.

we are entering the age where we need mod-chips for our phones

lol

I wonder if this in some way relates to why Sendo decided to jump ship.

Zuber

The great black cloud of warez sweeps over the little town of MICROSOFT SMARTPHONE OS.

Yep! the SPV is CRAP!!!! I had it for 3 days!!! I took it right back! technically it could be great, but the software litterally made it unusable

LOL gees I gotta say I thought they woulda done a better job on this.

Anyone know where I can see a pic + screenshots of the SPV?

My Nephew bought one a few weeks ago.

I asked him why, being M$ buggy etc. etc. and he said he wanted a new contract and this was the only device that he could get for £100 and get unlimited GPRS for £6 per month and could not resist.

I have to admit, at this price, it is very tempting package. Anyway, to cut long story short, he is totally peed off, think is is stupidly buggy and plans to take it back and demand it be replaced with something that "works". A new software upgrade is due soon, which might improve things, otherwise, this thing is a bag of sh...

Anyway, in the meantime, he is going back to his brilliant brick as he calls it (9210).

Zuber

still anyone got any links so I can see a picture of this thing?

Try to look in the Waffle section. There is (if I remember correctly) a
link to a page with pics. No idea why anyone would like to see such an
ugly phone :P :D :D :D

remember guys, this is the first of its kind and there are bound to be bugs...but dont write off M$ smatphones off too hastily. :)

im sure when they get their fingers out of their ears, things will get better. :D

*snip*...but dont write off M$ smatphones off too hastily. :)

LOL, how much of a back hander are you getting from M$ ?? ;)

oh, you know i cant tell you that....lets just say i have a good retirement plan :D

personal friends with good ol' Billy :D

Let us support SYMBIAN!!! Everybody now... :)

Sorry I just went over to the Palm Camp. Might come back when the 931- or 9410 come out. Love that form factor (a bit slimmer please).

Zuber

Theres no question - its crap!!! When texting every 2-3 words it freezes for about 5 seconds, have to wait then carry on - it does this at least twice in each text!!! [I type fast but not like a text in 10 seconds quick, just fast] And the menus are slow... Its rubbish!!! Its simply microsoft! They cant make good software - Of course they want "bugs so people will be fored to upgrade for years" - [James bond, tomorrow never dies]... Why buy MS when Symbian can do a much better job! Plus they chargin all this money for certificates so no free-ware for it... and we cant creat our own, Plus it has no photo application, to take and save photo's you have to creat a new MMS and insert>picture>from camera... Then save it as an MMS!!!! I mean its so RUBBISH!!!! And people say its got an MP3 player... welll its always breaking up the music! For no apparent reason [well there is one, its Microsoft] an hour glass pops up [well its version of an hour glass] when its not doing anything... and when its doing things [this happens every 1-2 min's [possibly why MP3 player keeps breaking up] - All the 'advantages' are nullified by the software's lack of competance to use the feature!!!! Ive used one of these!!! Ive had one!!! I took it back!!!! the ONLY thing better than 7650 is size, looks and weight... And thats about the only part Micro-flippin-soft havnt got there hands on ['cept a little stamp in the plastic *proudly* stating its MS Pocket pc power]! Arghhh!!!! Its CRAP!!!!! WHY WOULD YOU WANT IT!!!!!????? I would preffere a Nokia 5110!!! [actually I would preffere a N5110, im not being sarcastic] I got mine Free on T120 price plan which aint a bad deal - I STILL TOOK IT BACK!!! Its not worth the card its packed in


Any way - General summery of above text "SPV is bad, dont get one"
Have a nice day all :)

P.S. its crap

P.S. its crap

LOL, from that lil outburst, I think a lot of people will agree with you ;)

:D

I take it you weren't impressed then?


The MMS software IS flakey and there is a slight pause when using some of the menu's but it's not THAT bad. The SonyEricsson T68 was sower when it was first released and that cost a while lot more than the SPV.

Turning off keypad tones, system tones and lowering the keypad repeat rate, will speed it up by about 70%. How many of you use keypad tones anyway?! So that's the speed issue sorted.

The Orange cirtification support IS a problem for large developers, but they are toying with the idea of approving 'home-made' brews without the need for an expensive license as long as they are submitted for Orange pre-release approval.

The first software update (OTA unlike any other phone barring the unsuccessful Magcom) is due in about a months time. Not too long to wait. The first 7650's had far more bugs than the SPV and those buyers had to wait a lot longer before an update was released. Even then you had to find a level 4/5 NSC to have it updated.

The MP3 player problem is associated with loading too many MP3's and software packs onto the phone itself. Most people will buy larger (8mb is supplied) SD cards and use those. Let's be honest, it's smaller than a 7650, it potentialy does more, costs less, and is upgradable in terms of memory and functionality in ways 7650 owners can only dream.

I'm not saying it is a better phone the my beloved 7650, rather that it is not a bad phone. Most of the anti-spv comments on this and other message boards revolve around Microsoft and not the phone itself. Had it been made by Nokia, most of the nay-sayers would be praising its power and UI.

Had it been made by Nokia, most of the nay-sayers would be praising its power and UI.

Had it been made by Nokia, M$ wouldn't have had a look in ;)

EXACTLY what i mean - In THEORY it can do more - And the speed isnt sorted with the tones issuie! grrr I wish it was! And the software update - Well lets think of windows software update ehh... Cause of course it runs perfectly and crash free after u update it [SARCASM Overload] --- I wish they were that easy to be sorted - But lets face it.... orange update schedual is a release end of dec then one in July ... Why buy a phone that MAY [knowing Microsoft will most likely not] be sorted out 6 months from now when there will be phones [i hope] that do a lot more by then! I ask you! WHY!? Its all about the here and now ... Not next month - not 3 months away - and most definatly not 6 months away! The SPV is a flop - and im no anti orange person - but may i point out orange are in £25bn debt, they made 1000 redundant and are actually being sold off IF anyone will come up with the money - My CPW recon they may very well be under by fall off 2003. The SPV doesnt work - Its unfortunate... Oh and as for the MP3 loading to many on phone blah blah blah... I tred many a thing with my SPV - It breaks up quite a bit!

All in all - SPV is crap

Hhahahaha! You make me laugh! Turning of the keypad tones to make the phone work.....hHhahahah!

"Most of the anti-spv comments on this and other message boards revolve around Microsoft and not the phone itself."

No sorry, my nephew has had one for a number of weeks, and in his opionion it is an absolute pile of sh.. And that is comparing it to his Nokia 9210 in terms of reliability etc.

The 9210 was buggy when it came out, but from what he has shown me on this thing, it is very unstable. It worked "OK" when he first got it, but it gradually went down hill (sounds familiar). Like you say, perhaps the next servicepack or hot fix will resolve some of the main issues like not being able to sync. with Outlook properly or dial some of the contacts on the phone list.

Zuber

I agree it's not perfect (the SPV). But don't be so quick to write it off. The 7650 was released with far more bugs. You all seem perfectly happy to ignore that fact.
______
Turning off keypad tones to make it run faster.... haven't we been doing that for years with Ericsson's phones?

Making a dummy voicedial so that the speakerphone works... never had to do that on an SPV. Oh, a software update fixed that did it? But I thought a software update on an SPV was unacceptable... :roll:

Swings and roundabouts my dear anti-microsoft friends.

The 7650 was released with far more bugs.

Did you really count them one by one?


Anyways you are trying to compare a phone that came out 5 months AFTER the 7650. In computer terms this is usually double the speed and performance etc....yet some people STILL prefer the 7650.

Its still very early.......other SPV bugs will be surfacing :D

The SPV is a flop

Orange have sold more SPV's than 7650 in the past 2 weeks.

________

orange are in £25bn debt

As are most of Europe Telco's.

________

Oh and as for the MP3 loading to many on phone blah blah blah... I tred many a thing with my SPV

As did I and most of the users on MoDaCo forums, except they worked for us...

________
All in all - SPV is crap

Ok, You win. :-?

Did you really count them one by one?

:D


Anyways you are trying to compare a phone that came out 5 months AFTER the 7650. In computer terms this is usually double the speed and performance etc....yet some people STILL prefer the 7650.

I know, i'm one of them. I just don't think the SPV is a bad phone at all. And you agree, the 7650 has a 5 month headstart. The SPV is significantly more powerful and crams in far more memory, not to mention tri-band support. The only thing lacking is bluetooth which is only a half hearted attempt on the 7650 anyway.

Its still very early.......other SPV bugs will be surfacing

You know what i'm like when it comes to the SPV! I'm determined to remain unbias until the end. If the SPV were that bad, i'd side with you, but the fact is, its not! :)

You know I am playing with you right? :D

Orange have sold more SPV's than 7650 in the past 2 weeks.

Is this really a plus point? I mean hello? Do you know how many 7650 Nokia sold?


The thing is one! I can control Winamp with the 7650, I can browse my files with the 7650 (ok with the SPV too but you will get my point) I soon will be able to play Sierra Adventures on the 7650....why? Because developing for the 7650 does not cost anything!

I am a strong believer that Software makes a Phone, not hardware! :)

I know ya playin!

Controling Winamp from the 7650 is pretty tasty... for all of 5 minutes.

Now, the Sierra games may win you a couple of points over the SPV, ok more like a few hundred points. But, and it's a big but, will they ever be released?!

Snails & Active Desk are my personal two 'stand-out' apps for the 7650.
Active desk is a clone of the SPV's Today screen and worms started life on the PocketPC, and a port will be released on the SPV (and will run without killing all the memory) before the 7650 version is ready.

Active desk is a clone of the SPV's Today screen

....You are getting into the M$ spirit......

SPV's Today screen is a clone of Active Desk :D

Anyways, one of my mates got a SPV. I will meet him this Christamas when I get back to Greece. I will play with it and tell you what I think! Honest :D

Orange have sold more SPV's than 7650 in the past 2 weeks.


Are you sure? How do you know that? 7650 has sold over one million (and probably another million by the end of the year). SPV is never going to reach those figures.

About Bugs:
Did you really count them one by one?

:D


So? Have you? After looking through the Modaco bugtrack and all the comments from http://www.whatmobile.net I cannot see how the SPV can be less buggier than the 7650 at the beginning. Excatly what are the bugs you are talking about (in 7650)?

The Modaco Bugtrack is huge and so is the amount of people complaining in microsoft.public.smartphone. If the 7650 was that buggy you'd think all the mobile sites would've been keeling over the angry customers.

No, i've not counted the bugs. I don't love the SPV THAT much! :D

I've been reading the WhatMobile forums for a few months now, and signed up to the MoDaCo a few weeks ago. I've never been able to get onto the Microsoft Dev forums but I get a weekly update from it. My point being, I have read all of the same comments you have and I still believe in the SPV.

The bug list isn't that bad, most of them are related. You also forget that the SPV is aimed a tech savvy market, the 7650 wasn't and isn't. More SPV users are going to join forums and post obsucure error messages they've managed to find. How many "joe public's" are going to do the same when their 7650 crashes, slows down or restarts? Not many, they'll just take it back to the retailer.

The SPV vs 7650 sales info comes from a friend (& 7650 owner) who works at the Orange flagship store, and from the findings of the Comet buying dept. who are still considering (I gather) wether to order SPV's.

You're not getting my point here though, i'm not arguing against the 7650, I'm very happy with mine. I'm arguing for the under-rated SPV. I'm also missing Arsenal v Valencia to reply to your post! :P

Interesting ,I've just been looking at Microfosts own news server (news.microsoft.com) at their (microsoft.public.smartphone) forum. It makes interesting reading and has discussions about all the bugs and omissions from the OS. The SPV also seems to have a lot of hardware problems. Even the Microsoft staff there seem fed up!

Interestingly just today there is a discussion from people who have returned their SPV's and got 7650's instead :)

It was mentioned earlier that more SPV's had been sold the 7650's recently. Where did this information come from? Also does it include replaced devices? I remember the early IPAQ's had a problem that lead to a large number of returns which artificially inflated it shipping figures for a quarter.

You're not getting my point here though, i'm not arguing against the 7650, I'm very happy with mine. I'm arguing for the under-rated SPV. I'm also missing Arsenal v Valencia to reply to your post! :P

Agreed... As a Symbian advocate I tend the overreact to everything non-Symbian :-) But now, go watch the game! :-)

langdona,

It doesn't inlcude returns as these arn't collated for sales data.


Malebuffy,

The PocketPC platform had the Today screen before ActiveDesk was even an idea in the minds of the developers!

Snails & Active Desk are my personal two 'stand-out' apps for the 7650.
Active desk is a clone of the SPV's Today screen and worms started life on the PocketPC, and a port will be released on the SPV (and will run without killing all the memory) before the 7650 version is ready.

But Snails is going to be without Bluetooth support on the SPV... That game is going the be awesome with friends over BT.

I'm not going to get in to an argument with you omar,cause,i'm a OpenSource,Linux,Symbian advocate an you are Microsofts one,hence we have diferent points of view.
I just want to know one thing? Why is bluetooth on the 7650 half hearted attempt,because of no Audio Profile? I find bluetooth one of the best features that the 7650 has.What about the no hearted attempt on the SPV?

Some one said they sold more SPV's than 7650 - HOW???!!!! They've only made 200,000 to date! The SPV is a pile of crap!!!! Its CRAP - And yes the 7650 did come with bugs - But not half as sevre as the SPV [My friend had one of the very first 7650's] --- Ive Used an SPV - Returned it and got a 7650 ... The 7650's are MUCH better - I mean the SPV SHOULD be better than the 7650, On paper it sounds glorious.... In theory its amazing... In practice - ITS CRAP! I was total Pro SPV a week ago when i was walking home with mine [Came with leather case and all the candy u cud want] Day 1: Loved, little peeved by a bug or two, Day 2: Liked it, Trying to search for solutions to bugs day 3: Getting somewhat annoyed, played with mates 7650 again and found it refreashing to use compared to SPV. Day 4: Its last day, Hated it, TRYING to like it... I gave it till 3pm... Then i did the deed... It went home to Car Phone Warehouse... And good ridance.

I mean it has SOME nice features - But Like MaleBuffy said its the software that makes the phone - And the SPV just lacked that 100% - And as for a release of an update in 6 months - I thought - Phra! Im not buyin a phone in the hopes that in 6 months time it will work!!!! And why will they Really want to work on an old phone wen they cud spend time on a new one to rake in the profits!?

I ask you.... Use one for a few days solid.... and tell me you preffere it over the 7650!

....And the SPV just lacked that 100% - And as for a release of an update in 6 months - I thought - Phra! Im not buyin a phone in the hopes that in 6 months time it will work!!!!

Ol' Zipper has a point... Why buy a car without a steering wheel in the vain hope that the manufacturer susses out how to fit the damned thing making it possible to drive the car?

My daytime job involves programming embedded micro's (Hitachi H8/300H family in anyone is remotely interested ;) and I have to agree with whoever it was that mentioned so long as the hardware is in place, the software is relatively 'a doddle'... in lay mans terms anyways ;)

How come, with all the "experience" they're alledged to have, it takes M$ attempt after attempt to get anything right in the first place with the SPV?

Some one said they sold more SPV's than 7650 - HOW???!!!! They've only made 200,000 to date!

My exact words were: "Orange have sold more SPV's than 7650 in the past 2 weeks." "2 weeks" being the key part of that sentence.
Another quote from myself: "The SPV vs 7650 sales info comes from a friend (& 7650 owner) who works at the Orange flagship store, and from the findings of the Comet buying dept. "

I ask you.... Use one for a few days solid.... and tell me you preffere it over the 7650

Again, my exact words were: "i'm not arguing against the 7650, I'm very happy with mine. I'm arguing for the under-rated SPV. "

I fear i'm wasting my breath (finger tips?) on this one though. You're all coming at it from a completely different perspective :agrue: , so i think i'll leave this thread alone.

Why buy a car without a steering wheel in the vain hope that the manufacturer susses out how to fit the damned thing making it possible to drive the car?


Exellent - Precisly what i have been saying - Finally some one listens :) Now if they just listen to the next bit>



How come, with all the "experience" they're alledged to have, it takes M$ attempt after attempt to get anything right in the first place with the SPV?

THIS IS WHY>>> They make things full of bugs [obviously on purpose as you couldnt make that many thru lack of experiance... just not possible] THEY MAKE IT FULL OF BUGS SO PEOPLE WILL BE FORCED TO UPGRADE FOR YEARS.... Maybe not another SPV ... But anything MS... [MS get money who ever make it] Its what they do with Windows! Windows 98 being better than 95, xp better than 98 - Just not gonna mention ME as that was a flop- Did anyone actually LIKE THAT PIECE OF CRAP?!] What MS fail to realise it that there is competition out here making software that works [Unlike windows where they have a monopoly] -

Heres what they should have done from MS's point of view:

1 - Make a real good piece of kit, made us get used to Pocket Windows thing and make use know and love the interface etc... condition us to there philosphys

2 - THEN made buggy software BUT also make the previous working piece of kit completly obsolete - but we wud have to stick with windows because we all know how to use it and because everyone has it Only software for windows is made [except some people who do it because they like coding for Symbian]

3 - We wud all be MS'fied in way of phone OS from then on


Hmmm- Now see the similarity-

1 - Win 95 - Worked ace - everyone had it! Not very buggy

2 - win 98 made 95 obsolete - people upgraded - looked and felt the same

3 - now on win XP - totally buggy, but nothing else [cept symbian - sorry LINUX] and were all MS'fied

So we see Pocket windows and symbian COULD [but Pwin has had bad start] go the same way as windows and Linux - People i am telling you that is the future - Lets stick with Symbian! It works!!!

IF you think of replying to this post [I HIGHLY incourage it] Make sure you have read what i have typed so you dont try and flame me only to find u got the wrong idea because u only read a section and suddenly had the urge to reply on that bit not realising i had gone on to mention that point further etc...]. I am right in this case - weather you dis like it [those people who will try to hide and deny it with denial posts] or if you are pro MS [so they got to you, they assimilated you... The only humane thing is to kill you]

Okay seriously
3 fucking pages! okay some post a fucking screenshot, or picture of this phone please, I would like to see this phone but still cannot find a picture, so someone who has one of these, I mean seriously please a picture
is this too much to ask?

Okay seriously
3 fucking pages! okay some post a fucking screenshot, or picture of this phone please, I would like to see this phone but still cannot find a picture, so someone who has one of these, I mean seriously please a picture
is this too much to ask?

goto http://www.themobilerepublic.com and look at the phones section.

but here it is to see.....
http://www.themobilerepublic.com/productimages/orange/spvmed.gif

looks good tho :P

Ok. I am a software developer. I understand all the misgivings of all the Software compnies out there.

I would like to remind everyone that it is the competition that makes each of them up to their heels. That should make us customers the beneficiary of it.

Don't bash M$ too much. Imagine if you have different UI when you go from one PC to another. Techie users would find it OK, but ordinary users???

The only way Linux, Symbian can beat M$ is a long term investment.

Here's my two cents:

They should target the younger generation. The 90's generation of tech people are going with M$ right now.

The not M$ should infest the young of their products. FOR FREE with HARDWARE bundle.

Imagine a college student getting used to a SYMBIAN OS in School because SYMBIAN donated the hardware and software. Upon graduation, they will be hypnotized by non M$ products, that it lives in their veins! Now these next generation would be the one to be going into the new tech work force.

M$ would not do this because it is already their time to HARVEST.

In due time, it will be the not M$ to HARVEST.

Ok. I am a software developer. I understand all the misgivings of all the Software compnies out there.

I would like to remind everyone that it is the competition that makes each of them up to their heels. That should make us customers the beneficiary of it.

Don't bash M$ too much. Imagine if you have different UI when you go from one PC to another. Techie users would find it OK, but ordinary users???

The only way Linux, Symbian can beat M$ is a long term investment.

Here's my two cents:

They should target the younger generation. The 90's generation of tech people are going with M$ right now.

The not M$ should infest the young of their products. FOR FREE with HARDWARE bundle.

Imagine a college student getting used to a SYMBIAN OS in School because SYMBIAN donated the hardware and software. Upon graduation, they will be hypnotized by non M$ products, that it lives in their veins! Now these next generation would be the one to be going into the new tech work force.

M$ would not do this because it is already their time to HARVEST.

In due time, it will be the not M$ to HARVEST.

Sorry but I dont agree with anything you just said. You are describing M$ way of doing business.

I say dont harvest shit.Let people decide what is good or bad.

Malebuffy,


The PocketPC platform had the Today screen before ActiveDesk was even an idea in the minds of the developers!

I only hear Pocket PC.....well guess what.....And I quote from T3 who think the SPV is a good idea.....The Smartphone edition is an entirely diiferent OS....It is made from scratch and is not some ported OS or a downgraded W CE.

So you mean Today Screens are invented by M$.......even my Casio watch 10 years ago had one....:D

Anyways, I c your poinmt omar_g....You are still prefering the 7650...but think that the SPV is not so bad.....the thing I dont undersdtand is....whyy do you prefer the 7650 over the SPV when you think that the SPV is not such a bad phone?

the thing I dont undersdtand is....whyy do you prefer the 7650 over the SPV when you think that the SPV is not such a bad phone?

Because while the SPV is a very good phone, the 7650 is a fantastic phone. I also don't see the point in changing for an SPV just for a 'today' screen, although I was very close to doing so :D

I was determined not to post again in this thread because a couple of the highly opinionated posts earlier got me so p****d off, AND made me miss the first half an hour of the football! But i can't resist answering questions, im a sucker! :D I won't be logging on here again tonight; Man U & Newcastle! :P

Newcastle rulez.......

Liverpool,any time,any place! :D

They should target the younger generation.

What do you think is happening right now? Kids grow up with their phones. And the phones they own are chosen because of their style, image, and the brand of the manufacturer. As long as the biggest manufacturers stay with Symbian/Nokia* (which is what they will probably do as they don't want the industry to become like the PC industry where the only big player is M$) people will grow up with Symbian/Nokia phones.

As far as the consumer is concerned Nokia knows the consumer, M$ doesn't. And because the consumer is the young 8-year old gamer to the 35-year old business user and not just the tech savvy 20-30 year olds who seem to enjoy their PPC's and SPV's, Nokia will own the industry in the future. Especially because smartphones will only be a small market. That's why Nokia doesn't call it a smartphone and doesn't promote its software/UI to the consumer. It's not about the technology, it's about what you can do with it. The 8-year olds can play games on their N-gage. And the 35-five year will like the 7650's PIM options. All on the same platform, but who cares about that, only we AllAboutSymbian forum people! :D


* I say Symbian/Nokia because Nokia is the driving force behind Symbian.

They should target the younger generation.

What do you think is happening right now? Kids grow up with their phones. And the phones they own are chosen because of their style, image, and the brand of the manufacturer. As long as the biggest manufacturers stay with Symbian/Nokia* (which is what they will probably do as they don't want the industry to become like the PC industry where the only big player is M$) people will grow up with Symbian/Nokia phones.

As far as the consumer is concerned Nokia knows the consumer, M$ doesn't. And because the consumer is the young 8-year old gamer to the 35-year old business user and not just the tech savvy 20-30 year olds who seem to enjoy their PPC's and SPV's, Nokia will own the industry in the future. Especially because smartphones will only be a small market. That's why Nokia doesn't call it a smartphone and doesn't promote its software/UI to the consumer. It's not about the technology, it's about what you can do with it. The 8-year olds can play games on their N-gage. And the 35-five year will like the 7650's PIM options. All on the same platform, but who cares about that, only we AllAboutSymbian forum people! :D


* I say Symbian/Nokia because Nokia is the driving force behind Symbian.

Well said - Im sticking with Nokia [or SE if need be] simply because they use symbian - and symbian IMHO are the best - does wot its supposed to do consistanlty and reliably, and it does it within the same 5 seconds u tell it to do it... Its highly adaptive and super... And JAVA is fun to program, and easy to distrib so it'll have good support - and wont turn into Linux! Hopefully the bug to foul this world - commonly knowen as Microsoft will be squished and cremated, then its ashes will be burnt - them ashes will be burnt, and so forth untill theres no more gas to burn with or we get board and go home. [Or MS gets a face lift and starts makin good software, but hey, that'll never happen]

BTW im not TOTALLY ainti SPV!!! Granted its a pile of crap, but it looks nice... A nice looking pile of useless crap

thsui phone looks pretty damn sweet, but alas all the bugs forementioned tend to put ppl off a bit

so ill stick with the good ol 7650
but I wish we could customise the 7650 OS a little, make it a bit more prettier.

I'm not getting into a huge debate but my thoughts can be sumemd up like this...

Series 60 and Symbian OS built from small things upwards, so can easiily scale in small devices / memories and footprints.

Micosoft Stinger OS (and PPC to be fair) started from full blown Windows and tried to crunch it into something a bit too small.

The majority of problems all stem from that. After all if you're jamming code down to fit into small spaces, you don't have time to concentrate on other funky stuff.

I had the SPV for 15 days and treated it like a new born baby - and it still died on me.

Took it back and paid the extra cash for a 7650, which is certainly better.

The SPV hardware is cheaply made, except for the excellent screen. The buttons are beyond TERRIBLE. The software is slow, and a little buggy. There are frequent delays when using the device, as it simply freezes up.

Using the camers is laborious - not at all intuitive, and overall the user experience suffers in comparison so Symbian devices. Oh, and the ringtones and ABOMINABLE - very simply and shoddy. Not polyphonic. No bluetooth or Java either, and a very limited supply of certified apps, guaranteeing no freeware!

A few good points, though; great screen, built-in and very competent web browser, Instant Messenger and Media Player. Easy synchronisation with your desktop.

Overall: don't touch with a bargepole.

Definitely the best description for the SPV so far :D

Definitely the best description for the SPV so far :D

Yep :) A new one for the dictionary

SPV [SP'V, Sounds Pictures Video, English] Crap, to freeze up, to crash, to annoy. ALT. Microsoft

I have to admit - I havent got that much against MS-products. I agree with the critisism of the licensing policy, but thats as far as it goes. Weve seen a lot of companies go up against MS, and so far MS has got the upper hand in all those races (X-box might be an exception, but the jurys still out on that one). Remember Netscape? OS2? Palms going that way as well, I think - and Apples got its niches, but its not a serious comptitor.

Ive tried the SPV for about a month or so, and its way better than any other phone ive seen - the easy sync, the compatability with pc-standards and the MP3/WM alone beats the competion. Standards may be a bad thing if youre a technophile who whants to be able to modify everything, but for the rest of us - its actually quite a good thing. I dont have the nerves or the time to learn a different OS for every single device I use. So Im not worried about the MS dominace - at the moment they're ahaed of the game, and until I see better things from someone else, I'll be using MS devices.

Oh, and by the way - my SPV hasnt frozen or chrashed ONCE since Ive had it. I had a software update a week ago that made it a bit faster, though.

Why does everyone keep going on about how well the SPV syncs with outlook.

I find that even my Nokia 6310i syncs. very well with Outlook. Although only contacts, calander, todo.

I can't see why people get so excited by this. Unless you guys are saying it handles notes, multiple email, calander, contact folders, subfolders Categories, email file attachments such as Word, Excel as well.

Zuber

I have to admit - I havent got that much against MS-products. I agree with the critisism of the licensing policy, but thats as far as it goes. Weve seen a lot of companies go up against MS, and so far MS has got the upper hand in all those races (X-box might be an exception, but the jurys still out on that one). Remember Netscape? OS2? Palms going that way as well, I think - and Apples got its niches, but its not a serious comptitor.

Ive tried the SPV for about a month or so, and its way better than any other phone ive seen - the easy sync, the compatability with pc-standards and the MP3/WM alone beats the competion. Standards may be a bad thing if youre a technophile who whants to be able to modify everything, but for the rest of us - its actually quite a good thing. I dont have the nerves or the time to learn a different OS for every single device I use. So Im not worried about the MS dominace - at the moment they're ahaed of the game, and until I see better things from someone else, I'll be using MS devices.

Oh, and by the way - my SPV hasnt frozen or chrashed ONCE since Ive had it. I had a software update a week ago that made it a bit faster, though.

Ok... That is such a Microsoft thing to say... Call me suspicous but Microsoft would be the type of company to post a good thing like that... Hmm nice try MS... But your device doesnt work ... "not minding MS dominance" ... Well speaks for itself... There stuff is very poorly made... I dont understand why, I would think they have the expertease to make it good, and to make a good Phone OS, they need to just employ a few Big forum people rather than all these expensive designers and they cud have a winning phone! Its a shame you [MS] has resorted to posting to gain favour! And seriously for you newbie's - Dont touch a device knowen to have serious faults [Like the SPV] It honestly isnt worth wasting your time on!

If any phone designers - IE MS, Orange or anyone wants help... Im just to happy to help!

I have to admit - I havent got that much against MS-products. I agree with the critisism of the licensing policy, but thats as far as it goes. Weve seen a lot of companies go up against MS, and so far MS has got the upper hand in all those races (X-box might be an exception, but the jurys still out on that one

I'd say there are couple of more exceptions.
For one its the SPV,Microsoft is being ass kicked by Nokia and Symbian for a very long time now.Even good old Billy admits it.
The server marker and,Linux and Windows are quite even there.

I wonder if this in some way relates to why Sendo decided to jump ship.

Zuber

Nice Thinking!
maybe Sendo was smart enough to realize that without the software market the deviced worth shit.
:D

Well officially Microsofts 'vision' is that one day all electronic goods will bear the Microsoft logo, So The old toaster is gonna start crashing! Press 'eject' 'frozen bread' and 'crossaint' button to restart

Damn 3.4KG Turkeys arnt compatable with Cooker OS 3.4, Gotta get the drivers and install my turkey

I AGREE WITH ZIPPER!

Just to chuck my 2 cents into this conversation, I think people will buy the phone which suites their needs, EG. I was tempted by the SPV, but i already own an Ipaq, so it would have been a waste to double up features, also I find MS products inherently unstable, the hardware is usually top notch (MS Mice, joysticks, keyboards all own #1 spot for most ppl) but they get let down time and time again by there software. Prime example of this is the Ipaq, the machine itself works well, I must admit PPC itself runs well, with minimal problems, but ActiveSynch is a shit pain in the arse bodged pile of crap. It always has a problem syncing, its DAMN slow and randomly deciedes to clear my inbox and refuse to acknowledge that there is ANY mails there to read, but only after 5 mins of scanning the mailbox!!

Any, thats my rant/2c

Eck

Just to chuck my 2 cents into this conversation, I think people will buy the phone which suites their needs, EG. I was tempted by the SPV, but i already own an Ipaq, so it would have been a waste to double up features, also I find MS products inherently unstable, the hardware is usually top notch (MS Mice, joysticks, keyboards all own #1 spot for most ppl) but they get let down time and time again by there software. Prime example of this is the Ipaq, the machine itself works well, I must admit PPC itself runs well, with minimal problems, but ActiveSynch is a shit pain in the arse bodged pile of crap. It always has a problem syncing, its DAMN slow and randomly deciedes to clear my inbox and refuse to acknowledge that there is ANY mails there to read, but only after 5 mins of scanning the mailbox!!

Any, thats my rant/2c

Eck

Tell me this, who needs a phone that crashes, slow, unresponsive etc...!?

I think Microsoft is far more clever than we think.

I think that their phone aims the market of phones made for teens like the 8200 and 8300 or better say 7200 and not series 60 nor symbian.

Teens usually (I say usually) wants some basic things from their phone like sms/mms,size of the phone being small,games etc. etc.

But what really ms wants is to slowly put them in the pc market and think that if they fix the bugs they may achieve that in one level.

But for people like us who really knows what they want and how to get it, ms phone just sucks...

Also I don't remember where but I saw somewhere in the internet an interview of Bill Gates saying that Microsoft is far behind Nokia, he couldn't even dare to say the word Symbian.

Symbian is not Nokia's. Symbian is an Epoc/Psion based OS I think. Although Nokia has helped in the making of it.

(some background info:Ericsson used a version of Epoc/Psion on their R380 mobile just before symbian was created)

A picture that speaks a 1000 words

MS is just flippin crap. yet we still buy there products. were all pawns.

Pawns and Kings my friend...

Fools and Emperors,that's what we are...

Continuing with the MS trend, now that the MS cert security has been cracked for the SPV maybe non-professional sofware will be due to follow: -

http://212.100.234.54/content/59/28857.html

Hahaha I love the register for the way they put it, you do it like this [BIG BOLD LETTERS EXPLAINING] "but of course we dont indorse it" ... the other way can be found right here [link] :) hahaha. I like um! MICROSOFT IS CRAP!!! I wonder if they do any descent software [apart from the excellent free program, bootvis :)]

Continuing with the MS trend, now that the MS cert security has been cracked for the SPV maybe non-professional sofware will be due to follow: -

http://212.100.234.54/content/59/28857.html

The link seems broken? :(

Try the register for the article!

www.theregister.co.uk

I had a go on the SPV today... and... all i can say is 'What a naff phone' Hasnt changed abit! Im glad i took mine back! I find it Simply amusing how they have an update system for it...! because there will be errors etc... The existance show that they know there gonna have to release updates!!! its simply naff!

Plus it doesnt have Bluetooth

And the keys are awfull! Specially the arrow key, if u press up your in danger of press left and right aswell!

IF FINALLY FOUND WINDOWS SOURCE CODE!!!!! HERE IT IS!! You ready for it!

IF load=true
THEN computer=crash
PRINT "Fatel error"

Aparantly the SPV is a compressed windows, they theorize its

Everything=Crash
PRINT ""

:)

Is it me,or Zipper is posting replys to himself? :roll:

:D

Hi,
for those that are interested (not wanting to start a flame thing) I just switched from a 7650 to an SPV. I did this because I spent a whole day trying to sync the thing with XP using a bluetooth cf card that finally never worked. Gone are the days when this sort of thing interested me - I just wanted something that syncs, and this does the trick!
So, my impressions, positive and negative, are:
POSITIVE
great screen, 65K colours, wow!
love the home screen, like pocketpc but better
full internet is excellent
windows media player with 128MB+ SD card for music and videos is incredible, sound is amazing
games - wow, check out rebound and interstellar flames (maybe this last is out for 7650?)
great to not have to worry about memory
really great guessing of what number your going to call
quite a bit smaller than the 7650
excellent stereo headsets with call answer and volume control in the box
and of course, syncs like a dream (no xp problems here!)
NEGATIVE
really small keyboard, often hit the wrong key
would like it if the "screen saver" was more than screen off - ie showed the time like the 7650 - no more, just that would be nice
do not like the idea of not closing applications behind me
do not like not having a task switcher
no built in camera
no built in bluetooth (not that I ever got the bloody thing working, I've really gone off that technology - if you just want to sync, give me a cradle anyday. As a modem, that's another story of course)
navigation seems less "clean" than the 7650


That's about it. All in all I'm going to stick to the SPV. I'll miss the clean OS of symbian, but love the more feature rich smartphone OS and easy sync. If nokia ever fixes up the sync hell and sticks a cradle in the kit, I'll be back!

Sorry you switched,you should've asked here,someone would've found a solution for your problem.
Syncing works fine for most of people you know.
One significant problem was previous PC suite versions not being supported under Windows XP.
Windows XP supported version is out now (I'm not sure about this because i use Linux and Windows 2000)
You are blaming Symbian about it but there is more the one issue why syncing failed to work: Setup for the Bluetooth card was not good,bad drivers,old version of wildcomm,the rigistry fix etc etc.

great screen, 65K colours, wow!
Yes i agree,the screen is awesome.

love the home screen, like pocketpc but better
Nice...the home screen :D :D :D

full internet is excellent
Doris web browser for the 7650,maybe not full,but it is there.

windows media player with 128MB+ SD card for music and videos is incredible, sound is amazing
There are plenty of apps for the 7650 that can play movies and mp3,they are not bundled in to one though,which is good,low memory is a bumber though.

games - wow, check out rebound and interstellar flames (maybe this last is out for 7650?)
Yes,intestellar flames for series 60 was out long time ago.
But runing only certified apps? Its a "good" thing that SPV's security got cracked so SPV users can play pacman :D

really great guessing of what number your going to call
That is why we have contacts :D

quite a bit smaller than the 7650
Did you keep your 7650 open all the time? When the 7650 is closed it looks much bettter and its much smaller then the SPV.

excellent stereo headsets with call answer and volume control in the box
Stereo sound is something that the 7650 is missing but memory is very tight so,what good would stereo sound do.
Stereo is a nice feature but what good is stereo if you have buggy MP3 playback.

and of course, syncs like a dream (no xp problems here!)
Most of the syncing problems for the 7650 were resolved,so...

You like or dislike some trivial things about it,screen saver? Home screen,all of this can be changed with third part apps,oh yes i forgot,they have to be certified.I wonder how do Orange and MS check certificats now,when SPV security is cracked,maybe there is a dude in black suite behind you,checking out what apps you are running :D

I dont want to start on the bugs,missing features and negative sides that SPV has,quite a lot more the positive.

Is it me,or Zipper is posting replys to himself? :roll:

:D

hehehe - I kept thinking of bad things!... Granted I had to stop or else I would have kept posting till... well... Some time in the future.

The bad thing about the SPV is Microsoft. Simply put. Like your above post :)

Good points Ghost Dog.
Two little add-ons: I've actually had so much pain with bluetooth that I think for syncing, a cradle is great. I only think bluetooth is better when you want to use it as a modem (I'm not talking about bluetooth earsets, of course, which sound cool)
The other thing about contacts :D The SPV has them too, but what it does which is really cool is when you tiype on the keyboard, it matches the numbers as either letters (similair to T9) in a contact, or phone numbers. It means normally by three keypresses you have the contact up. It is excellent! This is more useful than you'd expect, because the damned keyboard is so small :oops:
One other thing I like is that the call history application is not slow. I found it really slow on the 7650 and caused it to hang.
I don't think I'll get the camera because I've heard it is really slow. I'll maybe get on of the casio exilim 2.1MP cameras that is the size of a credit card and uses SD cards, so I can easily take the card out and bang it into the SPV. The IA-Album software works really well. Still, you have to pay for it :(
Something the SPV does not have is voice dial. I never used this anyway, or had much luck getting it working unless I spoke really loud and sharp, but the SPV was meant to have this! I think in an update orange removed this because it was a power hog, but I think this is false advertising. I have not notiiced apps being slow, except for opening windows media player.
I think, like the 7650, it is not the perfect phone! That doesn't exist yet. Still, they're both damned good phones!!

What A load a tosh! [above post by guest] Im not attacking you or anything... But it is a useless phone, pluss log doesnt hang any more on new 4.XX FW... which is good! You should get a Camera with your SPV anyway [here in england they do it all in a box, spv, camera, case, Headset etc.... inc in price] I had it and took it back after 12 days! Useless phone indeed!

Good points Ghost Dog.
Two little add-ons: I've actually had so much pain with bluetooth that I think for syncing, a cradle is great. I only think bluetooth is better when you want to use it as a modem (I'm not talking about bluetooth earsets, of course, which sound cool)
The other thing about contacts :D The SPV has them too, but what it does which is really cool is when you tiype on the keyboard, it matches the numbers as either letters (similair to T9) in a contact, or phone numbers. It means normally by three keypresses you have the contact up. It is excellent! This is more useful than you'd expect, because the damned keyboard is so small :oops:
One other thing I like is that the call history application is not slow. I found it really slow on the 7650 and caused it to hang.
I don't think I'll get the camera because I've heard it is really slow. I'll maybe get on of the casio exilim 2.1MP cameras that is the size of a credit card and uses SD cards, so I can easily take the card out and bang it into the SPV. The IA-Album software works really well. Still, you have to pay for it :(
Something the SPV does not have is voice dial. I never used this anyway, or had much luck getting it working unless I spoke really loud and sharp, but the SPV was meant to have this! I think in an update orange removed this because it was a power hog, but I think this is false advertising. I have not notiiced apps being slow, except for opening windows media player.
I think, like the 7650, it is not the perfect phone! That doesn't exist yet. Still, they're both damned good phones!!

I mentioned contacts because i've heard that you cant dial a number from the contact menu? (I have never used the SPV,only seen it,and all i'm saying is comming from what i've read about it)
Please confirm or deny this.
And yes,what Zipper said is true, V 4.XX firmware revision are quite fast,i upgraded from v 3.16 to v 4.39 couple of days ago,end the difference is quite big.
It would be a shame if the apps would run slow on a phone with such powerful hardware.But it wouldn't suprise me if they do,afterall,it is MS :D

I found this on a thread in the MoDoCo forums (http://www.modaco.com/smartphone/viewtopic.php?t=2161).

At least they have a sense of humour :D

Very nice!!! I like the gif!

You can call from contacts. You simply enter the contact, highlight the number you want, and dial. I never do this though, the "number/name matching" feature is so excellent. I have never had a phone that is so easy to find and dial contacts on. If you want to see how this works, it is mentioned in the review on www.infosync.no.
I don't have the camera as I live in Paris and they don't put it in the kit here. I have no idea if it is bad, I've heard that the quality is good, but you apparently need to use the MMS application. I have IA-Album, which has a separate camera app, so I guess this overcomes that limitation, but can't say for sure.
Overall (despite "load of tosh" statements) I'm really happy. You can see a LOT more information on the screen. Switching back to the 7650 the screen seems to not have as much info because the lines are bigger. The 7650 is more polished in its navigation, the SPV seems "loose". Don't know which I prefer, they both seems as good, but I actually get to the apps a bit faster on the SPV. This is offset by the fact I don't have a task switcher to get back to them later, so its about equal.
One little pain, I can't seem to find how to do a carriage return in T9. Oh well.
There is an update coming out in the next few weeks (already available in Switzerland) that apparently speeds up the navigation and improves reception. I really have no problems with speed, having followed all the tips I found it seems as fast as the 7650 easily. Still, stupid that you should need to turn off the key sounds to get this :oops:
One pain is that you can only set up one email account with the SPV. (plus hotmail via the web of course). One good thing, however, is you can set it up to download at scheduled times automatically without needing to be something like activemail (which does other things, I know)

And lastly, I was a symbian supporter and loved the OS. Still do. I don't think that people should get so defensive that they don't look at other options, however. Sounds like a reverse M$/linux backlash to me :roll:

I'll finish again as I did before. They are both great phones.

Bye

About the last post [by 'guest'] Has Orange and Microsoft resorted to 'advertising' in forums!? Its a crap phone - and the only people that would dare say it is 'ok', 'accpetable', 'not bad' or even as extreem as 'good' must be employees of Orange or Microsoft - Its simply a naff phone!

Cant say that i agree one 100% with you on this one Zipper,i'd say that it depends on what you need.
Seems that guest is satisfied with the SPV's performance and that is ok.
Just for the reccord,i would never change my 7650 with SPV or any other MS device.

To guest,why dont you register,its free :D

Nooooo, I JUST READ THAT THE spv CAN'T CLOSE DOWN APPLICATIONS JUST LIKE MY FRIGGIN SH1TE ms os FOR THE ppc!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ffs WHEN are THESE MORONS GONNA REALISE HOW BLEEDIN SHITE THAT IS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

President Bush should declare wa on MICROSOFT, THEY REALL YARE UTTING FRIGGIN SH111111111te!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Back to front caps are annoying, aren't they :)