IT'S HERE!

£179 gets you an Orange branded SPV Smartphone, a clip on camera and unlimited GPRS WEB, WAP, and MMS. (£6 a month on top of your contract fees, compulsory & only offered to SPV buyers)

Sounds good hu? Wait until you hear the phone's specs:

Triband, MMC & SD card support upto 256mb, MMS messaging, Video Recording, MP3 Playback, 32mb Rom, 16mb RAM, 120mhz CPU and bluetooth via optional SD card accessory.

Software includes (here's where most of you will switch off) Internet Explorer, Windows Media Player, MSN messenger, Outlook, Today Screen (YEAH!) Pocket Word, Excell & Powerpoint.

It looks fantastic, yes it runs Microsoft software but so what?! It may be bloatware but it's a mini Ipaq, and everyone knows Ipaq's are fantatsic. The software is stable and easy to use, the organiser functions look great, i get an MP3 player too so i'm a happy man.
MMC card support, a Today Screen & an MP3 player, I'm in heaven!

There's a great deal of information on it on the ZDNET UK site.

It's released on November 11th in the UK and around europe within a couple of weeks of the UK launch. I'll be investigating further into SMS costs, if I can come up with anything cheaper than my current tariff on O2 I will definatly sell my 7650 in November & upgrade to the SPV. What a deal! :D

Here's some pictures:

http://www.zdnet.co.uk/news/specials/2002/10/orange/

So... what do you all think? ;)

IT'S HERE!

The software is stable and easy to use, the organiser functions look great, i get an MP3 player too so i'm a happy man.

How do you know if it is stable? Have u tried it yet? I dont think so :D

Well I dont like how it looks, and thats important for me! I think the size matters as well! So we will see! :)

i agree, i dont like the look of it, but thats my opinion :D it looks butt ugly hehe, a sort of meat-head phone :P and yes i would turn down aphone based on looks alone hehe.

If it did look better i'd return my 7650 regardless, with all them features tahts one handy phone, plus its available on orange hehe :)

the only thing limiting its 'net features' at the mo is probably the high cost of metered gprs for individuals :(

for me only left too say:

Billy sucks !!!!

buy Symbian invest in the future....

and not into Mikroshark... ;)

Sämi

i still like the P800
it looks better

I think it won't get interest of Nokia SmartPhone owner because of :

1) Its not Symbian .... thus not compatible with nokia large based smartphone user

2)Its .. windows ..... another bill Gates ..... :D :D

Bill Gates BAD
so he started on the phones when will he stop (reboot-istalle-reboot-istalle-reboot-reboot-you can't run the program-run only MS-.......)

I wouldn't touch this phone with a 300ft barge pole :-?

The cost of Unmetered GPRS to individuals is £6. This is the same for personal or business customers.

Microsoft.... Are you browsing this fofrum on a Mac? On Luinex? (Which I can't spell) Lindows? No? Thought not. Windows isn't that bad then is it?

:D

You may want to check that this 'unmetered GPRS' isn't limited to WAP. A lot of companies have great deals on GPRS, but its only later that people realise they can't browse the full internet or check their e-mail through the built in client because these connections are not included in the GPRS bundle.

I couldn’t give a shit if its made by Bill, all that matters to me is functionality.

I have run Nokias since the 101 as they have the best software. However if someone comes along and produces a better phone with extra features then that’s the phone I will own.

"Invest in the future", the only way you can do that is by supporting the best phone out there. If you don’t support a product because you do not like who owns it, then you are supporting the wrong technology.

If you refer back to the Betamax/VHS war, VHS won and that was a bad thing. I will support the best technology whoever creates it. That’s the only way to encourage true innovation.

While the SVP may have some good features in it's own right, I seriously doubt that it is a replacement for the 7650. There are quite a number of reasons why people chose the 7650, and while lots of people here are obviously fans of the Symbian OS and that is one of the main reasons why they like the 7650, there is an equally large group of people, myself included, who wouldn't care less who ran the OS as long as it worked. For myself, it is more Nokia that gets my loyalty because I associate it with a fast OS, good hardware design (Nokia certainly knows how to make their phones look executive chic, look at the 88xx and 89xx series). Some people get it simply because they want to have a carry around camera. So while the SVP may have it's own advantages, I personally don't think it is THE replacement.

just my 2½¢ worth.

While the SVP may have some good features in it's own right, I seriously doubt that it is a replacement for the 7650. There are quite a number of reasons why people chose the 7650, and while lots of people here are obviously fans of the Symbian OS and that is one of the main reasons why they like the 7650, there is an equally large group of people, myself included, who wouldn't care less who ran the OS as long as it worked. For myself, it is more Nokia that gets my loyalty because I associate it with a fast OS, good hardware design (Nokia certainly knows how to make their phones look executive chic, look at the 88xx and 89xx series). Some people get it simply because they want to have a carry around camera. So while the SVP may have it's own advantages, I personally don't think it is THE replacement.

just my 2½¢ worth.

I love Nokia/Symbian for the same reasons.

Plus Orange hit the SVP with a big fat ugly stick.

it's still the 7650 for me. can't find any better replacement to it aside from errr.... umm... 3650 maybe... simply because of memory capacity reasons! and, yes, i agree to most of what you're saying about symbian, it's cool and great - simple but rocks! if, and only if i decide to switch to a windows OS on my smartphone, then i get the rocking possibility of downloading "virus" in my phone... im sure you know how "viruses" work in windows.

As a computer user, it may be easier to use SVP since it's Windows base system. I am doubted that how much resource the phone will take. How long will the battery last. The most important is that how ease it is to recover from virus. I think time will tell the truth. I will not use SVP uptil it was proven to be the best.

Well I think this phone looks good. At least we might now be able to watch some decent format video with a fast frame rate. Hey and hopefully they might offer some support and return an email now and then. I dont even know why Nokia has email addresses - they obviously dont check their email. I think the features of the M$ phone far outweigh the Nokia.

Ian

Well I think this phone looks good. At least we might now be able to watch some decent format video with a fast frame rate. Hey and hopefully they might offer some support and return an email now and then. I dont even know why Nokia has email addresses - they obviously dont check their email. I think the features of the M$ phone far outweigh the Nokia.

Ian

Each to their own I suppose :-?

If you like to idea of watching video with a decent FPS, wait until 3G!! :o

Sounds like your going to get one, I promise I won't say I told you so when your phone crashes three times a day :D

Good luck.

Izzo.

Hey cheesy one ...

We have all been waiting for Flakey Software International (sorry Microsoft) to come out with their foray into the phoen space. Certainly I have been keenly interested in their progress.

First of all some interesting articles on the subject:

InfoSync Review - http://www.infosync.no/news/2002/n/2481,1.html

New Microsoft cell phone: Why I just love it! (ZDNet.com) - http://www.zdnet.com/anchordesk/stories/story/0,10738,2895473,00.html
(he hasn't used it obviously ... quite apart from being based in a place where it won't run)

The UK ZDNet Article - http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2124261,00.html

Unstrung with their slightly more down to earth interpretation - http://www.unstrung.com/document.asp?doc_id=23126

The Register Article - "We're being spanked by Nokia - Gates" - http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/27758.html

But then I think about all those other S60 licensees developing their own devices ... and who knows ... I am sure it will be a two horse race. Series 60 and .... um ... er ... probably Microsoft. I cant see Linux getting into the act.

I'm going to have a play with one this afternoon.

I'll let you know what I think on the News on the front page.

>>>Software includes (here's where most of you will switch off) Internet Explorer, Windows Media Player, MSN messenger, Outlook, Today Screen (YEAH!) Pocket Word, Excell & Powerpoint. <<<

You might want to double check the bit on Word, Excel & Powerpoint.

If it does run those I really will be impressed. Symbian, give up and go home :D

Otherwise, it looks OK and doesn't bring much new to the party other than MSM Messenger of course. From what I remember of the Pocket PC Internet Explorer, it left a lot to be desired. I'd be surprised if the Smartphone version was an improvement.

I know the P800 is likely to include "viewers" for Word, Excel, PowerPoint & Acrobat by the way(nice to mention an non M$ product at the end there).

It does look like good effort though. If the battery life is good, then I think Nokia, SonyEricsson could learn some lessons and up the Mhz and Ram on their devices.

Zuber

The important thing is to distinguish between a phone and a PDA! Some ppl dont including Microsoft! Stop comparing the 7650 with PDA like phones! They are different!

>>>The important thing is to distinguish between a phone and a PDA!<<<

To be honest, the distinction is getting rather blurred to me. Though I would not call the 7650 a full blown PDA, it has many "PDA" like properties.

Zuber

Just look at the Official Nokia marketing strategy for the 7650! It calls it a MMS Phone! I mean u guys must have used a PDA before or even seen one! The 7650 has NOTHING to do with a PDA! I mean its just a phone! The technology is quite OLD as well! It has been out in the market for months! I see the mobilke phone changing rapidly! From the early "WOW! I have WAP to the WOW I have Java leading to the WOW I Have MMS". This is going to change as time goes by! Every single phone that gets released is different from the older ones! 7650 -> P800 -> M$ Smartphone -> Orange! They are all different! The one does not have a camera, the other does not have a MMC slot, the Other does not have Bluetooth! I mean its a jungle out there and Its quite soon to say that we have standart features on every phone! Its just the beggining...

I have to agree with Muffy on this one!

You can't call the 7650 a PDA, it's just a phone with some basic PDA-ish features.

The P800 is classed as more of a PDA as you can view Word/Excel/Acrobat files.

The 7650 has the PDA features of a Series 3 Psion (Minus the OPL which in my opinion should have been included). Considering what you would class as a PDA now, it makes the Series 3 look like a casio personal organiser.

Muffy? LOL! Muffy? Hhahahaha!

The cost of Unmetered GPRS to individuals is £6. This is the same for personal or business customers.

Microsoft.... Are you browsing this fofrum on a Mac? On Luinex? (Which I can't spell) Lindows? No? Thought not. Windows isn't that bad then is it?

:D

Well, I am using Linux - fast and sweet... No m$ garbage on my sweet laptop... :D

J,

I'm gonna call your hand on this one. Exaclty what and how would you class a PDA? Apart from a proper web browser (ir with Java and Frames support), a bit of memory and the mp3/avi player I think the Series 3 range could still make a good run for your money.

I have another question! Do u realy watch movies with Windows MEdia PLayer? Do you make movies with Windows Movie Maker? Do you listen to mp3 with Windows Media Player? Do you read your mail with Outlook? M$ Smartphone OS has all them but I would like to use an Opera Brwoser, with A Video PLayer other than slow Windows Media Player and retriev my mail with a simple mail client not a full address book etc! U see where I am getting?

Until a few weeks ago, I would have agreed. Then I saw Palm come out with their latest offering. A low end "PDA", the Zire.

What do you get ?

160 X 160 mono screen with Graffiti writing area, no backlight and 2 Mb storage.

This is refered to as their basic PDA model.

Now, when the stats. are done to say who is selling the most "PDA"s, I bet they will count the number of these sold in the Who selling the most war, they will cound the Zire.
When looking at Symbian sales, you will hear "Can't count the 7650, it's not really a PDA".

Well, we have

160 X 160 mono, no backlight v 176x208 colour.
PIM applications on both devices.
Both can have 3rd party software written in advanced programming languages such as C++
Both Sync. with Desctop

So my argument is that if you can call a Zire a PDA, you can call a 7650 a PDA.

In reality of course, these are just names, and it is about what product will do what you need.

But I just found it amusing when a recent report put Symbian ahead and everyone started complaining that you can't count the 7650.

Zuber

7650 a PDA, tell that to the chick that bought a 7650 to take pics while on holidays! It might have PDA features, but it is sold as a phone! If you have a Overclocked Pentium III PC that is faster than a P4 does that mean that the P III is a P4? NO! So a phone that happens to be better than a low-cost PDA is not necessarely a PDA! :D

J,

I'm gonna call your hand on this one. Exaclty what and how would you class a PDA? Apart from a proper web browser (ir with Java and Frames support), a bit of memory and the mp3/avi player I think the Series 3 range could still make a good run for your money.

Don't get me wrong the series 3 was (and still is a great little device), recently a PDA has moved a bit more to PC-ish behavours (With support for DOC, XLS, HTTP etc) I suppose on reflection the series 3 was a bad example as it had a spreadsheet and a word appliation on it.

The point I was trying to (And failing to) get across is that the 7650 isn't an up to the minute PDA, more of a Series 3ish device minus the spreadsheet and word.

Where as the 9210 and P800 is more of a PDA/Phone as they have all the features an up to the minute PDA and the added funtionality of a phone.

Hope this makes sense? ;)

Some further press analysis and reviews 4 ya

This is the Sendo Z100 that seemed to have quietly launched on the same day : http://reviews.zdnet.co.uk/review/15/1/2103.html

Silicon Analysis http://www.silicon.com/a56071 and http://www.silicon.com/a56070

And BTW - as long as Nokia is eating Palm and PPC market share ... what do they care whether we call it a phone or a PDA

Not sure if those Silicon ones will take you directly there without registering.

OK, In answer to a few questions:

The GPRS deal is not limited to WAP. It can be used for any form of data, even P2P if you use a laptop to run the software. There is a fair use policy, Orange staff (naughty one's who tell Orange secrets) say warnings will be sent out at 10mb and disconnections/fines impossed at 12-15mb a month.

Included software; Powerpoint & Excell are viewers only while Word is suposedly a basic version, similar to that found on the PocketPC's. A fold away keyboard will be out soon, as will landscape graphics drivers.

Micro$oft, Microscof, Bill Gates, Billy Bill Bob etc. It's an attitude I don't understand. We have an inherant human tendency to knock those who are successful. If the phone does everything you need then excellent, who cares if the software it runs is made by a big company or a smaller one! :D

By the way, the SPV supports OTA firmware updates.

Next thing, does it replace the 7650? No, my thread title was wrong. I mean it is likely to replace my 7650. It simply does evrything I really want from a phone.

It's 1mm taller than the 7650 when it's CLOSED, thinner and less wide. Smaller than the P800. I don't use the camera of the 7650 anyway so I can live without it.

I'm just waiting to see what the battery life, and UI speed is like before I decide on getting one.

omar,

Do you have any links refering to the GPRS deal. I have an Orange contract and would be very interested in it. The only thing I've come across on Orange is the "Create Your Own Plan" where you can add the "Orange Access Pack". Tems & Conditions say Just For WAP.

Details

With the Orange Access pack you can get access to a range of services on the move with your WAP phone. Plus, when you choose the Orange Access pack, you'll receive the first month's subscription free.

receive live scores and up-to-the minute coverage on a range of sports

keep up with the gossip with the latest pictures, news and information and much more

buy books, CDs, videos and cinema tickets all from your Orange phone

use Google to find information from other WAP and websites


Subscribing to the Access pack will depend on the technology your phone uses to access WAP.

if you have a GPRS - (General Packet Radio Service) enabled phone you should request the Orange GPRS Access Pack

if you don't have a GPRS enabled phone you'll need an Orange CSD - (Circuit Switch Data Access) pack

Terms and conditions

You may request to cancel your Orange Access pack at anytime by giving at least five days notice before your billing date. Any changes You make to your Orange Access pack will take effect from your next billing date. Any unused Orange Access pack will not be rolled over to the following month. Orange Access pack can only be used to access Orange WAP sites while in the UK and will require the use of a WAP enabled phone. Orange GPRS Access pack is subject to a fair usage policy of 10MB. Subscribers exceeding this limit may be charged at the Orange Your Plan rates. Orange CSD Access pack is subject to a fair usage policy of 200 minutes. Subscribers exceeding this limit may be charged at the Orange Your Plan rates.

Zuber

Hey Zuber,

I know the phone is listed on the Orange site, it heads up the Business section. There should be some reference to it on there. Also have a look at the UK.telecom.mobile newsgroup on google where there is a lengthy thread about the GPRS deal. There is also a lot of info from a couple of Orange staff members on the "What Mobile" forum.

Hope that helps. I'm just having a read of the infosync review at the moment trying to decide wheather to sell my 7650 or not.... :-?

Micro$oft, Microscof, Bill Gates, Billy Bill Bob etc. It's an attitude I don't understand. We have an inherant human tendency to knock those who are successful. If the phone does everything you need then excellent, who cares if the software it runs is made by a big company or a smaller one! :D


Well Adolf Hitler and Atilla the Hun can both be seen as successful at least at some point in their lives but were not very popular for obvious reasons. OK these are extreme examples but I dont like Microsoft not because they are successful, but the methods they employed to get there and continue to use to maintain their position. Remember they have been found guilty of abusing their position as a monopoly in the states!

One of the main quoted reasons why the main phone manufacturers did not go down the Microsoft route, is that they were worried that Microsoft may get in the position where they could dictate to the phone industry what they did and at what price i.e. essentially what has happened in the PC world :o

whats the minimum tariff u can get it on? and what size is the sd card that comes with it?

this looks very good especially at 11cm!

I would not get too excited by the GPRS deal. We are talking minimum 12 month contract (normal) but the special £6 flat rate is only for the first 6 months. Then it could get expensive.

Zuber

I cant find the ctrl alt delete combo on the phone? This whole thing is a scam.This is not a microsoft product.

I would not get too excited by the GPRS deal. We are talking minimum 12 month contract (normal) but the special £6 flat rate is only for the first 6 months. Then it could get expensive.

According to the Orange staff, you will be offered one of their regular GPRS packages after 6 months (by then you'll be so hooked you'll pay anything) you can decline if you want. I've decided not to get one for now because:

1) The phone appears to lag badly in the demo presentation by Microsoft/Orange earlier this week. :(

2) I can't afford it! As my girlfriend keeps reminding me, I need to stop buying gadgets! ;)

3) I'm well overdue an upgrade on O2 so if I really want one in a months time i'll get a Sendo Z100 for £199. 14 day money back and no new contract to sign. :)

4) Appart from the lack of memory and a today screen, the 7650 does do everything I want. The MP3 player on the SPV will probably drain the battery like nobody's business anyway!

Still think its a great device and the Anti-Microsoft clan are missing out on a great little handset/deal. :D

No you see, as you already said it lags, and does everything the 7650 does etc. So we are not missing out on anything! Those ppl who just had enough of microsoft have enough for a reason! Dodgy OS with dodgy programs nobody uses except maybe IE. Do you know the difference between an anti-microsoft and you ppl! Whenever Microsoft releases somehting new, you find it very cool and blame us for being sceptic! Now I see you have changed your mind from your first post to this one! :D happy to see that :D Anyways, no offense just defending my position on M$! :D

Anyways, no offense just defending my position on M$!

None taken, but disrespect King Bill and his Microsoft empire again and I'll have to start calling you Muffy too! :D

You have a point but the 9210 lags like hell too... Symbian! T68? A300? MY-X5? 6210? SL45i? All have serious lag problems so its not suprise that the daddy of them all has a little speed problem when opening the inbox or an MPEG file from the SD card (comes with 32mb buy the way).

Even if you disagree with this example, you must admit the Windows XP is very good? Really good. As is windows 98 (eventualy) ME does stink though.

Do you use Linux? Lindows? nah.... thought not ;)

LOL! I just posted in the n9210 forum about XP! Its very good! Linux is better though! I use XP becasue:

1. Most ppl use windows even though you have to admit Linux is better!
2. I am used to using windows but prefer to use Linux although I dont
3. There are more apps for Windows than for Linux!
4. My name is NOT Muffy :D


Apart from the OS I realy dont use a Windows XP program except IE! Thats becasue I cant be bothered to download Opera :D I dont use WMP, Outlook, FRONTPAGE etc....

We are talking about the OS! The MS Smartphone however, has an OS BUT they force you to use IE, WMP, OUTLOOK etc! No chance for an customisable UI!

Thats my poroblem :) Not the hardware specs

Fair enough. You made some good points so i'm prepared to conceed defeat on this one..... until the Sendo Z100 comes out, then i'll be back for more. :)

Before you go to bed tonight remeber to take a glance at the beautiful log off/shut down screen on XP, and the well designed desktop & start menu... mmmm, lovely. :D Linux & Mac OS X users eat your heart out!

I will be waiting :D However, Do you know that the log off and Windows start screens are customisable? :D I have changed them to something better! :D

I didn't actualy! :o

BUT, I do honestly like the standard ones. :) I can't believe i'm still awake, arguing over start up screens and what not at 1.30am when i've got a lovely, warm girl waiting upstairs.... the things I do for microsoft! :D

I am in the same position! :D the things I do for Symbian! :)

Just admit it ... you're both really sad. I was in bed at 9:30 (which is sad), but with my girl (which is not so sad). Woke up feeling vindicated this morning (or something like that).

Man I went to bed at 9:30 when I was about 10 years old!
I sleep when I am dead!

Damn this thread has ballooned hehe

Omar do u have more info on the unmetered gprs package on orange?

I asked recently about unmetered and they said they dont offer any only the fixed bundles of 0.5meg upwards

The closest thing to 'unmetered' is the Orange Access Pack, which lets u use wap only, anything other than wap and content such as movies will say 'Restricted' in the browser.

Although i can receive mail using the mailbox thru GPRS :D

That is why people use M$ products,its flashy,shiny,colourful and its designed for the insanely stupid,no offense please,there are exeptions.
omar_g: if you want something flashy and nice on your logout/login/whatever screen install kde3 in see for yourself where from was your XP's cute interface ripped off.
For the reccord,windows 2000 is the best thing that came out from M$.Still not good enough.

Having finally found an OS from Flakey SW Intnl that works relatively reliably (W2K - well most of the time it does), I can see no point in moving to XP or any other that they might have up their sleeve.

Personally, I think most IT folk are getting mutlo pissed off with this endless stream of updates. In her headhunting business, my wife is still running the Interactive Unix and Oracle 6 app that I developed for her 15 years ago (although I keep trying to persuade her to go fond someone elses system since I am getting pissed off myself having to maintain the bloody thing ... as in how does VI work again).

Anyway, we are going to have a two horse race in the mobile arena ...my guess is relatively evenly split - M$ft and Nokia.

I agree on the 2 horse thing but I am not sure if the yare evenly split! Anyways I think the more appropriate coparison is M$ and Symbian rather Nokia, even though some may disagree! Anyways Symbian has 80% of the market and this still does not mean that M$ has 20%! There are other OS as well so its more likely to be much lower than 20% :)

I'll agree with Muffy I mean MaleBuffy on this one (Rare).

Can't see how M$ could possibly have 20%. Not yet anyway.

Before we start arguing, can someone remind me, 80% v 20% of what exactly. So that I can prepare my case properly :D

Zuber

Omar do u have more info on the unmetered gprs package on orange?

Sorry no, have a look at the two links I posted on the previous page, there was a heap of info there. I know there has also been a very similar deal going on for about 2 months, unadvertised by Orange and aimed at business users. There was a certain way of asking OCS for it but I didn't pay much attention as I dont have an Orange line (OVP Virgin but that doesnt count!). Have a look on uk.telecom.mobile for info on that and the new deal.


That is why people use M$ products,its flashy,shiny,colourful and its designed for the insanely stupid,no offense please,there are exeptions.
omar_g: if you want something flashy and nice on your logout/login/whatever screen install kde3 in see for yourself where from was your XP's cute interface ripped off.

Let's no get our wires crossed here, I havent pledged alliance to Microsoft, I simply disagree with the trendy 'Microsoft are rubbish" attitude.
I dislike a product or company if I find something to dislike. I hate Windows ME and found that 2000 crashed daily (I did have any early copy). But, I do like XP Pro which i use on my desktop, and I like 98SE which I use on my laptop. I've nothing against Microsoft, and I wouldn't disregard anything they produce just because they have released buggy software in the past (Considering the variations of hardware it has to run on i'm not supprised there are bugs. Apple don't have this problem to the same degree.) or because they've borrowed other average/good ideas, enhanced them and maketed them as thier own. Thats how the world works! - Michael Jackson's latest album was slated in reviews as being dated & unoriginal, but every major R&B album produced since has used the same vocal and instrumental production techniques. All theives, or taking note of something good and developing & enhancing previous technology?

That wasn't all directed at GhostDog, just at anyone who can be othered to read it. :D



Anyway, we are going to have a two horse race in the mobile arena ...my guess is relatively evenly split - M$ft and Nokia.

I agree, although it could be argued that it was Symbian & Microsoft. I'm just looking for an argument now! :D


Come on, roll up. I'll take on all comers. :D

omar_g did you pay for your copy of Windows XP Pro? :D

Come on now! :D

I THOUGHT SO :d

I did not say that M$ was all bad,it might be 90% bad :) but not all :)
Anyways,we seem to agree on most of the issues (Win2K and XP are descent OS's,dough XP is kinda flashy,shiny etc etc for my taste)so there is no point in discusing further.Two horse race,maybe,i think that Nokias horse has head start (Preety big one,too).M$ will have to do more than this featureless phone to establish itself in the mobile market.M$ and Symbian,naah,that would be something like lindows for the mobile world.I think that Symbian and Nokia could do it (They are allready doing it),if they change their customer policy a little.

WOW I love MS myselrf. well dont love them but I respect the work they do and whilst they may have taken some un ethical approaches to Competition I think what they have been able to do for the computing world is still a remarkable achievement.

And I gotta say this phone doesnt look half bad, but indeed, even I would like to see some statistics on how stable it is, and what other 3rd party applications and community support it can offer.

I mean, you would all have to concede the 7650 hasnt been a perfect phone weve all read stories or had it happen to us, dodgey batteries, or software so saying that only happens to this phone because its MS based is pretty generalised.

But indeed Symbian community has built up a fair bit in recent times, and in truth I think without the stong community support and wide ranging application develoopment that the 7650 and other symbian phones have, I dont think they would be as sucessful.

It will none the less be intresting to see how the phone goes out there in a the market, but I gotta say I look the look of the layout and GUI on the MS phone, seems alot more advanced and professional then that of any Nokia phone.

Wait unitl the 4 new UI's for series 60 are released.

Clearly M$ are a force to be reckoned with. They have all sorts of advantages that mere mortals can only aspire to ... familiarity for all those people that use desktop computers is just one of them.

Symbian has a bit of a head start with the existing phone makret - most strong players from the handset world having a share helps. Indeed, it was only the threat of the Msft on the horizon that made them all club together and do something about it (choosing Symbian in the first place and then solving some of the many sw problems that existed with the platform).

But where is the Symbian plug in for Wondoze or Linux (think about it). Where is the army of sw developers that Microsoft mobilises at the raise of a finger. Where is the strategy to neutralise the threat off .NET (or at least learn how to interoperate with it). A very large proportion of the business world is currently working out how to deliver their core service via this sort of infrastructure ... making it pretty easy for new services to be developed for the mobile device.

When you start to look into the tsunami coming ... where most significant services are delivered via a .NET or web services framework ... we all better stop kidding ourselves that Symbian wins as a result of the involvement of the phone device manufacturers. If the mobile community cant work out how to get interesting services into the hands of people that will actually use them ... then someone else will and it will probably come on the back of a Msft powered device (coz that appears a bit easier to some).

The reality is that we need to innovate like hell ... lift our heads out of the sand and look at what people really need. And that means that the Operators have to take a tumble to themselves and stop choking the market and the developers need to get a decent vision - stop fiddling about with silly stand alone utilities and embrace the notion that this is a connected (small) computer with limited memory functionality ... so shift some of the smarts needed back into the (web) services infrastructure (rather than moaning about a lack of memory).

I can see I am in danger of lathering at the mouth ... so </rant>. And BTW, I have a lot of respect for Msft ... just dont personally feel like endlessly upgrading my desktop sw to fill Bills pockets with cash (and that is something they have an awful lot of - cash).

Overlooking the MS good/evil debate for now (do we REALLY want to get into that here?), I want to go back to the '7650 is not a PDA' thing.

P.ersonnal
D.igital
A.assistant

Now, Personnal, hmm. its my phone, not anybody else, so Tick one.
Digital, yup. Its a digital device so tick two.
Assitant, well it certainly helps me! remembers all my phone numbers, address's emails etc, stores notes, plays games, Hell it does a damn site more than the last few PDA's ive owned.

So, YES. The 7650 is most definately a PDA. It is also a phone. Its a bl00dy good bit of kit too.
It has amazing potential, im all for pushing a product till it bleeds, there are things that we can do with the 7650 that nobody would ever have imagined when designing it.
I think its this expandability that is the key here. Ever since phones had the ability to download new software they stopped being a passive piece of consumer kit and moved into the computer/palmtop/pda area.
You could argue for years about the catagory it should fit into, but they never solved that one with the palmtop/laptop portable debate so dont bother.